BALTIMORE, Md. -- Call it a rematch between the east coast and west coast fire service icons where firefighters, nationwide, were the winners.
Derek Alkonis, battalion chief of the County of Los Angeles Fire Department, and John Salka, battalion chief FDNY retired, participated in a freewheeling discussion of the fire service moderated by Tim Sendlebach, Firehouse’s editor-in-chief. From the floor at Firehouse Expo in Baltimore the two veteran fire officers fielded questions and riffed on a variety of subjects.
Sendlebach launched the first question and quizzed the gentlemen on their thoughts about aggressive firefighting.
“I don’t even like the term,” Alkonis said. “It’s a very subjective term.”
In Alkonis’ mind, aggressive means to perform fire operations in a careless and dangerous manner.
“We need to be thoughtful and measured in performing our duties,” Alkonis said, adding that research needs to be incorporated in all fire operations.
Salka acknowledged that aggressive doesn’t mean to be reckless, but had a slightly different take on the term.
“We need to get in there and get it done,” Salka said. “I’ve always said if you’re not winning, you’re losing.” He commented that sometimes by the time a firefighter does a 360 degree walk around, the fire conditions have already changed dramatically and that’s why he advocates being aggressive with firefighting.
“There is a line between aggressive and dangerous,” Salka acknowledged. “…It’s not haphazard. Aggressive is a good word.”
Alkonis said there may be times when firefighters can “take shortcuts” to get the job done, but that can only happen when firefighters are well trained and have a great understanding about fire behavior and understand the scene at any given time. Otherwise, it’s better to have firefighters take a cautious and measured approach.
The fire service now has more available knowledge than ever before in history, Alkonis said, noting that it’s up to firefighters to get that knowledge and know how to use it.
“Knowledge itself doesn’t put out fires, but application of it will,” Alkonis said.
Fielding a question about whether to send firefighters above fire to perform search and rescue, Salka said it was an everyday occurrence for FDNY.
“It’s always about risk versus reward,” Salka said, noting that there are some occasions when going above the fire is not a good idea and it always requires coordinated efforts.
Alkonis said his department has a policy to never pass fire to get to fire, but he too acknowledged that exceptions always need to be kept in mind.
“Policies can’t dictate everything we do on a fire scene,” Alkonis said, adding there are often times were exceptions must be made based on the situation and conditions.
Salka and Alkonis were asked their thoughts about adding another word to the age-old Vent, Enter Search (VES) acronym used to help firefighters remember operating procedures. There’s a school of firefighters who want to add an I for Isolate to the acronym to have it become VEIS.
“Why do we have to change VES,” Salka said, adding that it has been around since before he was in high school more than 40 years ago. “It’s been our mantra for decades.”
Salka said isolate is something his firefighters had in the minds always and they now don’t need to remember another letter.
Alkonis said NIOSH reports repeatedly indicate firefighters fail to isolate fire and victims time and time again.
“It’s such a critical issue maybe we need to include the ‘I’ in VES,” Alkonis said.
“If you need to add another letter, knock yourself out,” Salka said. “EIEIO. How far do you go?”
Salka said he was convinced that acronym, and all others for that matter, were devised to help firefighters make it through testing and promotions so they wouldn’t forget all the steps.
As firefighters moved from recruit to full firefighters and officer, they developed “muscle memories” that instinctively guided the firefighter to do their jobs effectively.
An attendee asked Salka and Alkonis their opinions about live fire training and Alkonis was the first to offer his thoughts.
First, Alkonis said he has too many employees and recruits to take through live fire for training. He has found success with simulators.
“I am not sure live fire is the best training,” Alkonis said, noting that he doesn’t need live fire to teach firefighters forcible entry techniques or even how to effectively advanced hose. Getting firefighters’ hands on equipment can be done in apparatus bays almost any time, he said.
Salka also said he can have very effective training without any fire. He described scenarios where he has officer candidates stand in front of a video screen with real fires, gleaned from YouTube, or other sources, and portable radios. With the sound on the video down, Salka said he can simulate fire operation and ask the officer for assignments, size-up and a myriad of questions to the point of perspiring.
Both men, however, said there are times and places for live fire training and it’s a good tool to help prepare firefighters.
“Live fire should be the culmination of all the training they’ve had,” Salka said. “…A firefighter’s first living room fire shouldn’t be in living room.”
Both men were in agreement, there’s no such thing as too much training and the fire service is ever evolving and firefighters need to gain all the knowledge and experience they can safely manage.
“If we know we have a gap, we have to work on it,” Alkonis said.
